Top Law Schools

Just starting a new thread to leave the old WUSTL 3L thread to die. He's a lawyer now and shouldn't be bothered by questions for students.

Ok, so in that case, ill just repost my question here.

Ali wrote:

bjmichel77 wrote:
One question for any that are in the know, but how does going abroad the summer after 1L seem to affect employment for the following summer? Would you find yourself playing catch-up in the market by not working your 1L summer? Otherwise, are there options for partial employment, so that you might have the option of still going abroad and working after 1L?

Well from what I understand, your 2L summer job is based almost entirely on your 1L grades. Also going abroad for the summer might be a good thing in that it gives you something to discuss over interviews. When you say going abroad, do you mean as in "Study Abroad"? That's even better. Also I think you may be able to apply for some kind of part time job while abroad. I'd talk to the career services office.

Yes, i was talking about taking a summer session abroad. Ideally, I'd like to take a session in Europe, and simply stay for a few weeks after to travel. Of course, that will depend on my financial situation by that time. Also, my friend that is a 1L at minn said that going abroad for a semester during 2L is a bad idea because you miss OCIs, so it seems like that summer would be my best and only opportunity.

I have sometimes heard that employers might actually view studying abroad as a negative factor, because the level of coursework isn't always up to par with a domestic program. Any truth to this?

bjmichel77 wrote:Ok, so in that case, ill just repost my question here.

Ali wrote:

bjmichel77 wrote:
One question for any that are in the know, but how does going abroad the summer after 1L seem to affect employment for the following summer? Would you find yourself playing catch-up in the market by not working your 1L summer? Otherwise, are there options for partial employment, so that you might have the option of still going abroad and working after 1L?

Well from what I understand, your 2L summer job is based almost entirely on your 1L grades. Also going abroad for the summer might be a good thing in that it gives you something to discuss over interviews. When you say going abroad, do you mean as in "Study Abroad"? That's even better. Also I think you may be able to apply for some kind of part time job while abroad. I'd talk to the career services office.

Yes, i was talking about taking a summer session abroad. Ideally, I'd like to take a session in Europe, and simply stay for a few weeks after to travel. Of course, that will depend on my financial situation by that time. Also, my friend that is a 1L at minn said that going abroad for a semester during 2L is a bad idea because you miss OCIs, so it seems like that summer would be my best and only opportunity.

I have sometimes heard that employers might actually view studying abroad as a negative factor, because the level of coursework isn't always up to par with a domestic program. Any truth to this?

I wanted to do the same thing. Basically, the best thing I can say to that is, don't. It's too expensive. Wash U only goes to Utretcht. I wanted to go to London. The programs are ridiculously expensive, the classes are pretty much fake and if you don't do the Wash U program, they may not count towards your credits. Plus, actual legal experience will look better to ANY employer. If you really want to do the abroad thing, you should look into the transnational program. That's actual school though, and again, it's in Utretcht for a year (maybe a year and a half, i'm not positive). Your best bet is get some sort of legal internship for a part of the summer, then go to europe and travel on your own for a few weeks.

Is it true that everybody has some sort of scholarship?

Why does the school buy its student body?

hwmyones wrote:Your best bet is get some sort of legal internship for a part of the summer, then go to europe and travel on your own for a few weeks.

How accessible are paid positions for 1Ls?

What can you tell me about the classroom environment? Are the profs generally interesting or boring, are they funny or harsh? Do the students contribute intelligent ideas in class or do they try to avoid being called on and stumble through responses? After reading the other thread and other sources I feel like I have a pretty good idea of what WUStL is like, except for this aspect.

Jwatson wrote:Is it true that everybody has some sort of scholarship?

Why does the school buy its student body?

maybe because they know that no one has 40 grand just lying around to give them. then again, i haven't gotten a financial aid packet yet so maybe, if im really really lucky, i can be the one to dispel this theory.

Jwatson wrote:Is it true that everybody has some sort of scholarship?

Why does the school buy its student body?

The school does not buy all its students. The c/o 2011 has a much higher percentage of people on scholarship because of the looming tanking of the economy. More people decided it was worth going to the #19 school with money than the # 13 school for $40k. I don't have statistics on this but I can't imagine they give out more scholarships (actual number, not $) than other schools in their range with similar endowments (Emory, GW, etc.)

And to be honest, because most of the legal world thinks of the quality of law schools by how they are ranked, and the incoming student body has a lot to do with future ranking, if you could afford it, why wouldn't you want to have students with higher GPA's/LSAT's if they'll come.

bjmichel77 wrote:

hwmyones wrote:Your best bet is get some sort of legal internship for a part of the summer, then go to europe and travel on your own for a few weeks.

How accessible are paid positions for 1Ls?

Outside of the top 9 or 10 schools, there are VERY few 1L's getting paid positions this summer. Or future summers. I'm working for a mid size firm and making a few bucks, but not nearly what biglaw summer associateships pay.

seatown12 wrote:What can you tell me about the classroom environment? Are the profs generally interesting or boring, are they funny or harsh? Do the students contribute intelligent ideas in class or do they try to avoid being called on and stumble through responses? After reading the other thread and other sources I feel like I have a pretty good idea of what WUStL is like, except for this aspect.

Well I can only go on the professors I have. The 1L class is split into lettered groups of 6 (A-F) and numbered groups (1-12). Some classes we have with 2 lettered groups, some with just our own letter, and others with just our number. For the most part, my professors have been very approachable and friendly, besides the few old schools professors that have been there forever, most classes are not taught in pure socratic form. I don't have any Ben Stein type professors. Some are more interesting than others. My Crim Law professor is one of the more quirky and weird human beings I've ever met but we bust out laughing at least once a class b/c of the ridiculous things he says. For the most part, people here are pretty intelligent and have thoughtful things to say. You have your few people (myself included) who will make a stupid comment on purpose sometimes to lighten the mood, and those that dont fully understand and continue to ask the same question, but otherwise, most of us are not uber-competitive and get along and that leads to pretty easy flowing classes.

Thanks man, sounds like a good place to be. I'd already heard about Happy Hour and all that so this was my only question as far as the environment. WUStL was the best-ranked school I applied to so hopefully I'll make the cut.

Hey OP, were you around the other day for ASD? I enjoyed the day... wish I would have stayed around for Happy Hour though

hwmyones wrote:

Jwatson wrote:Is it true that everybody has some sort of scholarship?

Why does the school buy its student body?

The school does not buy all its students. The c/o 2011 has a much higher percentage of people on scholarship because of the looming tanking of the economy. More people decided it was worth going to the #19 school with money than the # 13 school for $40k. I don't have statistics on this but I can't imagine they give out more scholarships (actual number, not $) than other schools in their range with similar endowments (Emory, GW, etc.)

And to be honest, because most of the legal world thinks of the quality of law schools by how they are ranked, and the incoming student body has a lot to do with future ranking, if you could afford it, why wouldn't you want to have students with higher GPA's/LSAT's if they'll come.

You are FOS about about schools with similar endowments... WUSTL has #12 per student endowment, emory and GW both fail to make the top 20!

http://leiterlawschool.typepad.com/leit ... _scho.html

when adjusted as leiter does for COL (not sure if I like this metric, he believes it has value tho...) they are 5th, and emory/gw are STILL not on the list...

Emory and Wash U. are about equivalent on aid in some ways. Emory gives slightly more full tuition or more, but gives to fewer students for half tuition and for less than half, it's kinda a wash.

GW however is COMPLETELY below Wash U in terms of scholarship. they (WUSTL) give ~%5 full tuition or more, GW gives .1% Wash U gives 15% half tuition schollys, GW gives 2%
That's an enormous gap.

CAVEAT: This is the 05-06 entering class data, so it's ever so slightly dated..

jadedV wrote:Hey OP, were you around the other day for ASD? I enjoyed the day... wish I would have stayed around for Happy Hour though

Hey, I was there too! Who were you?

studymaster wrote:

jadedV wrote:Hey OP, were you around the other day for ASD? I enjoyed the day... wish I would have stayed around for Happy Hour though

Hey, I was there too! Who were you?

Who was I, or who am I...?

studymaster wrote:

hwmyones wrote:

Jwatson wrote:Is it true that everybody has some sort of scholarship?

Why does the school buy its student body?

The school does not buy all its students. The c/o 2011 has a much higher percentage of people on scholarship because of the looming tanking of the economy. More people decided it was worth going to the #19 school with money than the # 13 school for $40k. I don't have statistics on this but I can't imagine they give out more scholarships (actual number, not $) than other schools in their range with similar endowments (Emory, GW, etc.)

And to be honest, because most of the legal world thinks of the quality of law schools by how they are ranked, and the incoming student body has a lot to do with future ranking, if you could afford it, why wouldn't you want to have students with higher GPA's/LSAT's if they'll come.

You are FOS about about schools with similar endowments... WUSTL has #12 per student endowment, emory and GW both fail to make the top 20!

http://leiterlawschool.typepad.com/leit ... _scho.html

when adjusted as leiter does for COL (not sure if I like this metric, he believes it has value tho...) they are 5th, and emory/gw are STILL not on the list...

Emory and Wash U. are about equivalent on aid in some ways. Emory gives slightly more full tuition or more, but gives to fewer students for half tuition and for less than half, it's kinda a wash.

GW however is COMPLETELY below Wash U in terms of scholarship. they (WUSTL) give ~%5 full tuition or more, GW gives .1% Wash U gives 15% half tuition schollys, GW gives 2%
That's an enormous gap.

CAVEAT: This is the 05-06 entering class data, so it's ever so slightly dated..

So WUSTL's endowment is fricking huge. I don't see how this is a bad thing? WashU is trying to improve the reputation and ranking of its school. Doing this comes down to two things: student quality and faculty quality. Both of these things involve throwing money around. Bringing in top quality students helps the school's reputation in two ways: first, their improving medians can be used to attract more firms to their OCI (something which has appeared to help Vanderbilt a lot). Second, once these students graduate and do well in the work force, they will influence the reputation of the school among practitioners.

studymaster wrote:

hwmyones wrote:

Jwatson wrote:Is it true that everybody has some sort of scholarship?

Why does the school buy its student body?

The school does not buy all its students. The c/o 2011 has a much higher percentage of people on scholarship because of the looming tanking of the economy. More people decided it was worth going to the #19 school with money than the # 13 school for $40k. I don't have statistics on this but I can't imagine they give out more scholarships (actual number, not $) than other schools in their range with similar endowments (Emory, GW, etc.)

And to be honest, because most of the legal world thinks of the quality of law schools by how they are ranked, and the incoming student body has a lot to do with future ranking, if you could afford it, why wouldn't you want to have students with higher GPA's/LSAT's if they'll come.

You are FOS about about schools with similar endowments... WUSTL has #12 per student endowment, emory and GW both fail to make the top 20!

http://leiterlawschool.typepad.com/leit ... _scho.html

when adjusted as leiter does for COL (not sure if I like this metric, he believes it has value tho...) they are 5th, and emory/gw are STILL not on the list...

Emory and Wash U. are about equivalent on aid in some ways. Emory gives slightly more full tuition or more, but gives to fewer students for half tuition and for less than half, it's kinda a wash.

GW however is COMPLETELY below Wash U in terms of scholarship. they (WUSTL) give ~%5 full tuition or more, GW gives .1% Wash U gives 15% half tuition schollys, GW gives 2%
That's an enormous gap.

CAVEAT: This is the 05-06 entering class data, so it's ever so slightly dated..

Fucking yankees and red sox, buying good players like that, and then doing well. Why can't more people be like the royals and pirates, and not buy anybody, and not do well? That's commendable.

jadedV wrote:Hey OP, were you around the other day for ASD? I enjoyed the day... wish I would have stayed around for Happy Hour though

Yes, I was at the reception at the Whittemore house and then spent a little time at the Happy Hour.

studymaster wrote:

hwmyones wrote:

Jwatson wrote:Is it true that everybody has some sort of scholarship?

Why does the school buy its student body?

The school does not buy all its students. The c/o 2011 has a much higher percentage of people on scholarship because of the looming tanking of the economy. More people decided it was worth going to the #19 school with money than the # 13 school for $40k. I don't have statistics on this but I can't imagine they give out more scholarships (actual number, not $) than other schools in their range with similar endowments (Emory, GW, etc.)

And to be honest, because most of the legal world thinks of the quality of law schools by how they are ranked, and the incoming student body has a lot to do with future ranking, if you could afford it, why wouldn't you want to have students with higher GPA's/LSAT's if they'll come.

You are FOS about about schools with similar endowments... WUSTL has #12 per student endowment, emory and GW both fail to make the top 20!

http://leiterlawschool.typepad.com/leit ... _scho.html

when adjusted as leiter does for COL (not sure if I like this metric, he believes it has value tho...) they are 5th, and emory/gw are STILL not on the list...

Emory and Wash U. are about equivalent on aid in some ways. Emory gives slightly more full tuition or more, but gives to fewer students for half tuition and for less than half, it's kinda a wash.

GW however is COMPLETELY below Wash U in terms of scholarship. they (WUSTL) give ~%5 full tuition or more, GW gives .1% Wash U gives 15% half tuition schollys, GW gives 2%
That's an enormous gap.

CAVEAT: This is the 05-06 entering class data, so it's ever so slightly dated..

Your caveat explains everything. The difference in financial aid between c/o '08 and c/o '11 is huge. I believe c/o '12 will get less money than us though, because every school's endowment is shrinking a little bit.

hwmyones wrote:

studymaster wrote:

hwmyones wrote:

Jwatson wrote:Is it true that everybody has some sort of scholarship?

Why does the school buy its student body?

The school does not buy all its students. The c/o 2011 has a much higher percentage of people on scholarship because of the looming tanking of the economy. More people decided it was worth going to the #19 school with money than the # 13 school for $40k. I don't have statistics on this but I can't imagine they give out more scholarships (actual number, not $) than other schools in their range with similar endowments (Emory, GW, etc.)

And to be honest, because most of the legal world thinks of the quality of law schools by how they are ranked, and the incoming student body has a lot to do with future ranking, if you could afford it, why wouldn't you want to have students with higher GPA's/LSAT's if they'll come.

You are FOS about about schools with similar endowments... WUSTL has #12 per student endowment, emory and GW both fail to make the top 20!

http://leiterlawschool.typepad.com/leit ... _scho.html

when adjusted as leiter does for COL (not sure if I like this metric, he believes it has value tho...) they are 5th, and emory/gw are STILL not on the list...

Emory and Wash U. are about equivalent on aid in some ways. Emory gives slightly more full tuition or more, but gives to fewer students for half tuition and for less than half, it's kinda a wash.

GW however is COMPLETELY below Wash U in terms of scholarship. they (WUSTL) give ~%5 full tuition or more, GW gives .1% Wash U gives 15% half tuition schollys, GW gives 2%
That's an enormous gap.

CAVEAT: This is the 05-06 entering class data, so it's ever so slightly dated..

Your caveat explains everything. The difference in financial aid between c/o '08 and c/o '11 is huge. I believe c/o '12 will get less money than us though, because every school's endowment is shrinking a little bit.

No, it doesnt at all. Show me somethign that makes it clear 08/11 changed differently FOR EACH SCHOOL, rather than as a whole.. then you might be making some headway towards discrediting it

jadedV wrote:

studymaster wrote:

jadedV wrote:Hey OP, were you around the other day for ASD? I enjoyed the day... wish I would have stayed around for Happy Hour though

Hey, I was there too! Who were you?

Who was I, or who am I...?

Touche. You're obviously a word ninja, the smokebombs and black clothing made you undetectable. I think you migth even have been at table #4? Am I right..? Or totally crazy?

please tell me you people aren't complaining about a school being willing to give free money to it's incoming students....

hwmyones wrote:

studymaster wrote:

hwmyones wrote:

Jwatson wrote:Is it true that everybody has some sort of scholarship?


The school does not buy all its students. The c/o 2011 has a much higher percentage of people on scholarship because of the looming tanking of the economy. More people decided it was worth going to the #19 school with money than the # 13 school for $40k. I don't have statistics on this but I can't imagine they give out more scholarships (actual number, not $) than other schools in their range with similar endowments (Emory, GW, etc.)

And to be honest, because most of the legal world thinks of the quality of law schools by how they are ranked, and the incoming student body has a lot to do with future ranking, if you could afford it, why wouldn't you want to have students with higher GPA's/LSAT's if they'll come.

You are FOS about about schools with similar endowments... WUSTL has #12 per student endowment, emory and GW both fail to make the top 20!

http://leiterlawschool.typepad.com/leit ... _scho.html

when adjusted as leiter does for COL (not sure if I like this metric, he believes it has value tho...) they are 5th, and emory/gw are STILL not on the list...

Emory and Wash U. are about equivalent on aid in some ways. Emory gives slightly more full tuition or more, but gives to fewer students for half tuition and for less than half, it's kinda a wash.

GW however is COMPLETELY below Wash U in terms of scholarship. they (WUSTL) give ~%5 full tuition or more, GW gives .1% Wash U gives 15% half tuition schollys, GW gives 2%
That's an enormous gap.

CAVEAT: This is the 05-06 entering class data, so it's ever so slightly dated..

Your caveat explains everything. The difference in financial aid between c/o '08 and c/o '11 is huge. I believe c/o '12 will get less money than us though, because every school's endowment is shrinking a little bit.

No, it doesnt at all. Show me somethign that makes it clear 08/11 changed differently FOR EACH SCHOOL, rather than as a whole.. then you might be making some headway towards discrediting it

and i beg to differ, but yes, you can't really compare anything from the economy of three or four years ago to the market as it stands today. show you something that makes it clear?? how about the impending collapse of our entire financial system. or is that not clear enough yet?

try this parallel reasoning on for size: i dont believe in global warming, so until you can show me something that clearly shows the differences in temperature in every city in the world, rather than the globe as a whole, then you might be making some headway to convincing me.

the country is going broke, chief. clear as day.

hwmyones wrote:

studymaster wrote:

hwmyones wrote:

Jwatson wrote:Is it true that everybody has some sort of scholarship?


The school does not buy all its students. The c/o 2011 has a much higher percentage of people on scholarship because of the looming tanking of the economy. More people decided it was worth going to the #19 school with money than the # 13 school for $40k. I don't have statistics on this but I can't imagine they give out more scholarships (actual number, not $) than other schools in their range with similar endowments (Emory, GW, etc.)

And to be honest, because most of the legal world thinks of the quality of law schools by how they are ranked, and the incoming student body has a lot to do with future ranking, if you could afford it, why wouldn't you want to have students with higher GPA's/LSAT's if they'll come.

You are FOS about about schools with similar endowments... WUSTL has #12 per student endowment, emory and GW both fail to make the top 20!

http://leiterlawschool.typepad.com/leit ... _scho.html

when adjusted as leiter does for COL (not sure if I like this metric, he believes it has value tho...) they are 5th, and emory/gw are STILL not on the list...

Emory and Wash U. are about equivalent on aid in some ways. Emory gives slightly more full tuition or more, but gives to fewer students for half tuition and for less than half, it's kinda a wash.

GW however is COMPLETELY below Wash U in terms of scholarship. they (WUSTL) give ~%5 full tuition or more, GW gives .1% Wash U gives 15% half tuition schollys, GW gives 2%
That's an enormous gap.

CAVEAT: This is the 05-06 entering class data, so it's ever so slightly dated..

Your caveat explains everything. The difference in financial aid between c/o '08 and c/o '11 is huge. I believe c/o '12 will get less money than us though, because every school's endowment is shrinking a little bit.

No, it doesnt at all. Show me somethign that makes it clear 08/11 changed differently FOR EACH SCHOOL, rather than as a whole.. then you might be making some headway towards discrediting it

and i beg to differ, but yes, you can't really compare anything from the economy of three or four years ago to the market as it stands today. show you something that makes it clear?? how about the impending collapse of our entire financial system. or is that not clear enough yet?

try this parallel reasoning on for size: i dont believe in global warming, so until you can show me something that clearly shows the differences in temperature in every city in the world, rather than the globe as a whole, then you might be making some headway to convincing me.

the country is going broke, chief. clear as day.[/quote]
Its liek you have verbal diarhea. You MONSTROUSLY misconstrued what I was saying.

He was saying he didnt believe Wash U differed substantially in scholarship handouts from other schools. I have data comparing schools. He claimed the economic downturn invalidated my data, it doesnt logically follow the downturn would affect various law schools differently (in a meaningful way)

Your analogy is spurious and offensively puerile

And to clarify, I LIKE that Wash U invests heavily in its students, i think this is a big plus and a very intelligent strategy...

verbal diarhea, huh? its easier to discredit my statements if you actually pay attention to your spelling, for one.

as for my analogy, i stand by its relevance. maybe you should try to make an argument that cant be misinterpreted so easily. hopefully you can work on that in the next 3 years.