Let's Talk 9th Circuit! Forum

[Anonymous User]

Anyone know anything about Judge de Alba out in Fresno? She's a new 2023 appointee, but curious to know any info about the credentials of her clerks as compared to the other 9th Cir judges.

Like most judges on CA9, de Alba seems to hire good students from T14 schools (for de Alba, especially her double alma mater) and top students from local schools.

Would honors from CLS with strong PI credentials and ties to Fresno be competitive or is high honors/top 10% necessary for her?

You would be very competitive. She hires more holistically than most judges (which is good!)

[Anonymous User]

Anyone know anything about Judge de Alba out in Fresno? She's a new 2023 appointee, but curious to know any info about the credentials of her clerks as compared to the other 9th Cir judges.

Like most judges on CA9, de Alba seems to hire good students from T14 schools (for de Alba, especially her double alma mater) and top students from local schools.

Would honors from CLS with strong PI credentials and ties to Fresno be competitive or is high honors/top 10% necessary for her?

Top 40% at CLS is generally not competitive for a CA9 clerkship (or any circuit clerkship), but different things stand out to different judges, and so people occasionally get circuit clerkships with above-average T14 grades. You just have to apply and hope for the best.

I'd imagine there's a lot of distance between top 15% and top 40%, is there a general spot that makes you competitive for the non-feeders on the 9th or other circuits? I'm a 2L so have some time to bring things up.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone know anything about Judge de Alba out in Fresno? She's a new 2023 appointee, but curious to know any info about the credentials of her clerks as compared to the other 9th Cir judges.

Like most judges on CA9, de Alba seems to hire good students from T14 schools (for de Alba, especially her double alma mater) and top students from local schools.

Would honors from CLS with strong PI credentials and ties to Fresno be competitive or is high honors/top 10% necessary for her?

You would be very competitive. She hires more holistically than most judges (which is good!)

sweet! Will definitely apply to her.

[Anonymous User]

Any thoughts on Forrest (CA9) or Immergut (D. Or) as a boss/clerkship experience/workload?

Also, are Oregon ties a boost for either of them?

[Anonymous User]

Is it possible to get a 9th Circuit clerkship without a district clerkship first? Top 10% at T14 in CA. I don't know if I want to commit to two years of clerking but I would like to do an appellate clerkship.

[Anonymous User]

Is it possible to get a 9th Circuit clerkship without a district clerkship first? Top 10% at T14 in CA. I don't know if I want to commit to two years of clerking but I would like to do an appellate clerkship.

Absolutely. But if you’re at UCLA (T14-lite) and not Berkeley, the odds are worse. At either school, the right 3Ls / recent alums should give you a sense of which CA9 judges hire more frequently from your school.

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know if Judge Koh has moved yet for 2027?

[Anonymous User]

.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone know anything about Judge Tiffany Cartwright in WDWA? How is she as a boss? How is she respected intellectually within the court/circuit? From the outside she seems like a rising star with a strong attention to detail/precision, but curious if anyone has more info.

[Anonymous User]

Does anybody know if Judge Bade in Phoenix has moved for 27 or 28? Also any intel on what a clerkship with her is like as compared to other 9th Circuit judges? Culture/workload/etc.

[Anonymous User]

Does anybody know if Judge Bade in Phoenix has moved for 27 or 28? Also any intel on what a clerkship with her is like as compared to other 9th Circuit judges? Culture/workload/etc.

I had a great experience clerking for Judge Bade. Workload is probably on the higher end, but hard to say for sure (my insight on the workload in other chambers is limited). She prefers hiring folks with work experience, particularly a clerkship in a busy district. Ideology is not a factor in hiring except at the extremes. Great as a boss—kind, organized, clear in her expectations, not a micromanager. She usually hires around now for the term after next, so she might have moved for 27, but probably has not for 28 (and likely will not until this time next year).

[want2belawyer]

Does anybody know if Judge Bade in Phoenix has moved for 27 or 28? Also any intel on what a clerkship with her is like as compared to other 9th Circuit judges? Culture/workload/etc.

I had a great experience clerking for Judge Bade. Workload is probably on the higher end, but hard to say for sure (my insight on the workload in other chambers is limited). She prefers hiring folks with work experience, particularly a clerkship in a busy district. Ideology is not a factor in hiring except at the extremes. Great as a boss—kind, organized, clear in her expectations, not a micromanager. She usually hires around now for the term after next, so she might have moved for 27, but probably has not for 28 (and likely will not until this time next year).

Thank you for the insight!! Just curious, what does "on the higher end" mean in practice? In Judge Bade's chambers, or just in general for a coa clerkship.

[Anonymous User]

anyone have a sense of the general competitiveness of the Biden appointees?

[want2belawyer]

Does anybody know if Judge Bade in Phoenix has moved for 27 or 28? Also any intel on what a clerkship with her is like as compared to other 9th Circuit judges? Culture/workload/etc.

I had a great experience clerking for Judge Bade. Workload is probably on the higher end, but hard to say for sure (my insight on the workload in other chambers is limited). She prefers hiring folks with work experience, particularly a clerkship in a busy district. Ideology is not a factor in hiring except at the extremes. Great as a boss—kind, organized, clear in her expectations, not a micromanager. She usually hires around now for the term after next, so she might have moved for 27, but probably has not for 28 (and likely will not until this time next year).

Thanks! Sorry if this is a dumb question, but when you say workload is "on the higher end," what does that actually mean? For Judge Bade in particular or for any 9th Circuit judge.

[Anonymous User]

anyone have a sense of the general competitiveness of the Biden appointees?

No idea what the impression is from the applicant side these days. But ranked overall on judicial prowess, it should be:

H. Thomas
/
/
Koh/Sung/Sanchez
/
/
Desai/Johnstone
/
/
/
/
Mendoza/de Alba

[Anonymous User]

Is Chhabria done? No reports of him at our T6

[Qui Tam]

Anyone have any news about CDCA? I know Selna and Scarsi filled and Carter's listing has expired. Wu's posting said he likely won't start interviewing until July so I am curious who else is on a delayed schedule for 2027

[Anonymous User]

Does anybody know if Judge Bade in Phoenix has moved for 27 or 28? Also any intel on what a clerkship with her is like as compared to other 9th Circuit judges? Culture/workload/etc.

I had a great experience clerking for Judge Bade. Workload is probably on the higher end, but hard to say for sure (my insight on the workload in other chambers is limited). She prefers hiring folks with work experience, particularly a clerkship in a busy district. Ideology is not a factor in hiring except at the extremes. Great as a boss—kind, organized, clear in her expectations, not a micromanager. She usually hires around now for the term after next, so she might have moved for 27, but probably has not for 28 (and likely will not until this time next year).

Thanks! Sorry if this is a dumb question, but when you say workload is "on the higher end," what does that actually mean? For Judge Bade in particular or for any 9th Circuit judge.

In practical terms, I think you can consistently expect to put in 50-70 hours per week, and possibly more right before a difficult calendar. My understanding is that is on the higher end of average for the 9th Circuit, but perhaps I am wrong about that (the 9th Circuit has a high caseload and a lot of en bancs, so I would not be entirely surprised if most other chambers were putting in similar hours).

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone have a sense of which district judges in the ninth might be elevated if there were a dem President in two years?

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone have a sense of which district judges in the ninth might be elevated if there were a dem President in two years?

Pitts and Lin are probably the most highly regarded young Biden appointees on ND Cal. Whether that makes them likely to get elevated, dunno.

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone have a sense of which district judges in the ninth might be elevated if there were a dem President in two years?

Pitts and Lin are probably the most highly regarded young Biden appointees on ND Cal. Whether that makes them likely to get elevated, dunno.

Agree they are the most regarded. However, it's unfortunate for them that all the northern California circuit judges are also quite young. Koh is the oldest at 56. By the time any of them take senior status, Pitts and Lin will probably be deemed too old.

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone have a sense of which district judges in the ninth might be elevated if there were a dem President in two years?

Pitts and Lin are probably the most highly regarded young Biden appointees on ND Cal. Whether that makes them likely to get elevated, dunno.

Agree they are the most regarded. However, it's unfortunate for them that all the northern California circuit judges are also quite young. Koh is the oldest at 56. By the time any of them take senior status, Pitts and Lin will probably be deemed too old.

I don’t think there has to be a NorCal vacancy though - Koh herself replaced Paez (who’s in Pasadena), and de Alba (EDCA) replaced Watford (Pasadena).

IMO the bigger issue is that there likely won’t be many vacancies if there is a Dem Pres/Senate in 2029 - if Gould/Wardlaw/Rawlinson continue to refuse to go senior, as they did under Biden, the only Dem appointees who will be eligible before 2032 are Murguia, Christen, and Nguyen.

Murguia would probably go senior if a Dem president could confirm her successor - of the Dem DAZ appointees, only Lanham and Desai seem plausible based on age, and Desai is out b/c his sister’s already on CA9 and there’s a rule against immediate family members being on the same court. Kelly/Gallego are both pretty conservative Dems, so Lanham’s career as a federal prosecutor might appeal to them.

With Christen, the only DAK Dem appointee (Gleason) is too old. I don’t know enough about the AK Supreme Court justices to say if they could be possible candidates. My two cents are just that if the AK senators are Peltola and Murkowski (and a Peltola win seems necessary for the Dems to win/keep the senate), I would think they might want either the first Native American/Alaskan circuit judge or someone with experience representing Native Alaskans.

Nguyen won’t be eligible to go senior until May 2030, and I think she’s unlikely to go senior less than 2 years into her term as chief.

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone have a sense of which district judges in the ninth might be elevated if there were a dem President in two years?

Pitts and Lin are probably the most highly regarded young Biden appointees on ND Cal. Whether that makes them likely to get elevated, dunno.

Agree they are the most regarded. However, it's unfortunate for them that all the northern California circuit judges are also quite young. Koh is the oldest at 56. By the time any of them take senior status, Pitts and Lin will probably be deemed too old.

They don’t always strictly observe northern/Southern California. Eg koh replacing paez. So Wardlaw, Callahan, Milan Smith.

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone have a sense of which district judges in the ninth might be elevated if there were a dem President in two years?

Pitts and Lin are probably the most highly regarded young Biden appointees on ND Cal. Whether that makes them likely to get elevated, dunno.

Agree they are the most regarded. However, it's unfortunate for them that all the northern California circuit judges are also quite young. Koh is the oldest at 56. By the time any of them take senior status, Pitts and Lin will probably be deemed too old.

I don’t think there has to be a NorCal vacancy though - Koh herself replaced Paez (who’s in Pasadena), and de Alba (EDCA) replaced Watford (Pasadena).

IMO the bigger issue is that there likely won’t be many vacancies if there is a Dem Pres/Senate in 2029 - if Gould/Wardlaw/Rawlinson continue to refuse to go senior, as they did under Biden, the only Dem appointees who will be eligible before 2032 are Murguia, Christen, and Nguyen.

Murguia would probably go senior if a Dem president could confirm her successor - of the Dem DAZ appointees, only Lanham and Desai seem plausible based on age, and Desai is out b/c his sister’s already on CA9 and there’s a rule against immediate family members being on the same court. Kelly/Gallego are both pretty conservative Dems, so Lanham’s career as a federal prosecutor might appeal to them.

With Christen, the only DAK Dem appointee (Gleason) is too old. I don’t know enough about the AK Supreme Court justices to say if they could be possible candidates. My two cents are just that if the AK senators are Peltola and Murkowski (and a Peltola win seems necessary for the Dems to win/keep the senate), I would think they might want either the first Native American/Alaskan circuit judge or someone with experience representing Native Alaskans.

Nguyen won’t be eligible to go senior until May 2030, and I think she’s unlikely to go senior less than 2 years into her term as chief.

Fair points. But given that SoCal is down 1 judge already as you noted, I have a hard time believing they will again dip into that allocation. We will see. To the original question, I've heard that both Lin and Pitts are good bosses and people should consider working for them regardless of their potential elevation.

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone have a sense of which district judges in the ninth might be elevated if there were a dem President in two years?

Pitts and Lin are probably the most highly regarded young Biden appointees on ND Cal. Whether that makes them likely to get elevated, dunno.

Agree they are the most regarded. However, it's unfortunate for them that all the northern California circuit judges are also quite young. Koh is the oldest at 56. By the time any of them take senior status, Pitts and Lin will probably be deemed too old.

I don’t think there has to be a NorCal vacancy though - Koh herself replaced Paez (who’s in Pasadena), and de Alba (EDCA) replaced Watford (Pasadena).

IMO the bigger issue is that there likely won’t be many vacancies if there is a Dem Pres/Senate in 2029 - if Gould/Wardlaw/Rawlinson continue to refuse to go senior, as they did under Biden, the only Dem appointees who will be eligible before 2032 are Murguia, Christen, and Nguyen.

Murguia would probably go senior if a Dem president could confirm her successor - of the Dem DAZ appointees, only Lanham and Desai seem plausible based on age, and Desai is out b/c his sister’s already on CA9 and there’s a rule against immediate family members being on the same court. Kelly/Gallego are both pretty conservative Dems, so Lanham’s career as a federal prosecutor might appeal to them.

With Christen, the only DAK Dem appointee (Gleason) is too old. I don’t know enough about the AK Supreme Court justices to say if they could be possible candidates. My two cents are just that if the AK senators are Peltola and Murkowski (and a Peltola win seems necessary for the Dems to win/keep the senate), I would think they might want either the first Native American/Alaskan circuit judge or someone with experience representing Native Alaskans.

Nguyen won’t be eligible to go senior until May 2030, and I think she’s unlikely to go senior less than 2 years into her term as chief.

Fair points. But given that SoCal is down 1 judge already as you noted, I have a hard time believing they will again dip into that allocation. We will see. To the original question, I've heard that both Lin and Pitts are good bosses and people should consider working for them regardless of their potential elevation.

The only CA-based CA9 judges that could go senior are Wardlaw, Callahan, and M. Smith. Each of them has particular quirks about their profile that makes it seem unlikely that Pitts or Lin would be their successor. Wardlaw, for example, has such strong SoCal ties that it wouldn't be surprising if she conditioned stepping down on maintaining that seat in Pasadena.