Let's talk 2nd Circuit! Forum

[Anonymous User]

Tough to pick just one. People seem to
really like clerking for Rakoff, Engelmayer, Abrams, Oetken, Furman, Koeltl and Cote (off the top of my head).

Not Koeltl lol

[Greenbabushka]

Tough to pick just one. People seem to
really like clerking for Rakoff, Engelmayer, Abrams, Oetken, Furman, Koeltl and Cote (off the top of my head).

Not Koeltl lol

Why not?

[Anonymous User]

Tough to pick just one. People seem to
really like clerking for Rakoff, Engelmayer, Abrams, Oetken, Furman, Koeltl and Cote (off the top of my head).

Not Koeltl lol

I would also remove Cote (who is a good judge, but can be a difficult person) and Rakoff who is a complete wacko now.

[ambrau90]

Tough to pick just one. People seem to
really like clerking for Rakoff, Engelmayer, Abrams, Oetken, Furman, Koeltl and Cote (off the top of my head).

Not Koeltl lol

Why not?

Different poster, but his clerks work late every day (8 or 9 pm) and have to come in every Saturday too. No idea how he is otherwise as a boss though.

[Anonymous User]

Tough to pick just one. People seem to
really like clerking for Rakoff, Engelmayer, Abrams, Oetken, Furman, Koeltl and Cote (off the top of my head).

Not Koeltl lol

I would also remove Cote (who is a good judge, but can be a difficult person) and Rakoff who is a complete wacko now.

I'm a 2L so no special insight but Rakoff was my crim professor last year and was an exceedingly nice person with a good sense of humor. If you mean he's a wacko because he's big on cj reform he's to the right of like 90% of CLS's faculty, I can't imagine he stands out ideologically on the federal bench relative to some of the other judges I've interacted with at ACS events.

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know what Merriams hiring standards are?

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know what Merriams hiring standards are?

Do not clerk for Merriam.

[Anonymous User]

Thoughts on Cote as a boss/clerkship experience in SDNY?

[Anonymous User]

Who is the best judge to clerk for in SDNY?

"Best" is fairly subjective and depends on what you are looking for. But generally-speaking if you are looking for a non fedsoc judge from what I have heard Oetken would probably be the favorite; seems like he manages clerk loads the best, is a great boss, very smart, well-connected, and is a fantastic writer. Engelmayer and Carter are probably tied for a very close second place. After that, Abrams would probably come in third. But, it is all subjective, depends on the person, and may vary from year to year--even among the ordering of those four. That said, my guess is that most people would be very, very happy clerking any of those four.

Of course, not as sure what the more conservative judges are like. If you are looking for a more conservative judge you may be happier clerking for other appointees given they will be more tapped into the fedsoc pipeline for your career long term. Really just depends on what you are looking for.

Oetken is truly fantastic!

[Anonymous User]

Tough to pick just one. People seem to
really like clerking for Rakoff, Engelmayer, Abrams, Oetken, Furman, Koeltl and Cote (off the top of my head).

Not Koeltl lol

I would also remove Cote (who is a good judge, but can be a difficult person) and Rakoff who is a complete wacko now.

These takes are wild. All secondhand info, but straight from the clerk grapevine:

I know of one or two Cote clerks that have encountered difficulties adjusting to her management style. Others report loving their clerkship.

Rakoff remains an extremely well respected judge who still feeds, albeit much less often than before for reasons NYC clerks know.

Koeltl is also an extremely well respected judge and reportedly a fabulous teacher. His clerks go into the year expecting the long in-person hours and are willing to make that tradeoff.

[Anonymous User]

Tough to pick just one. People seem to
really like clerking for Rakoff, Engelmayer, Abrams, Oetken, Furman, Koeltl and Cote (off the top of my head).

Not Koeltl lol

I would also remove Cote (who is a good judge, but can be a difficult person) and Rakoff who is a complete wacko now.

These takes are wild. All secondhand info, but straight from the clerk grapevine:

I know of one or two Cote clerks that have encountered difficulties adjusting to her management style. Others report loving their clerkship.

Rakoff remains an extremely well respected judge who still feeds, albeit much less often than before for reasons NYC clerks know.

Koeltl is also an extremely well respected judge and reportedly a fabulous teacher. His clerks go into the year expecting the long in-person hours and are willing to make that tradeoff.

In a recent clerk year, Koeltl hired only two clerks but had like ten interns or something. Total chaos.

[Anonymous User]

Rakoff remains an extremely well respected judge who still feeds, albeit much less often than before for reasons NYC clerks know.

You must be a Rakoff clerk.

[Anonymous User]

Tough to pick just one. People seem to
really like clerking for Rakoff, Engelmayer, Abrams, Oetken, Furman, Koeltl and Cote (off the top of my head).

Not Koeltl lol

I would also remove Cote (who is a good judge, but can be a difficult person) and Rakoff who is a complete wacko now.

These takes are wild. All secondhand info, but straight from the clerk grapevine:

I know of one or two Cote clerks that have encountered difficulties adjusting to her management style. Others report loving their clerkship.

Rakoff remains an extremely well respected judge who still feeds, albeit much less often than before for reasons NYC clerks know.

Koeltl is also an extremely well respected judge and reportedly a fabulous teacher. His clerks go into the year expecting the long in-person hours and are willing to make that tradeoff.

In a recent clerk year, Koeltl hired only two clerks but had like ten interns or something. Total chaos.

Is this a reason not to clerk for him? Sincere question—not sure I understand the import of this info.

[Anonymous User]

Cote recently posted. What is her management style? And how is Oetken’s assignment system more preferable than how other judges do it? Does anyone know anything about clerking for Buchwald or Marrero?

[Anonymous User]

Anyone have insight into Menashi's hiring timeline? I have heard he sometimes moves very early--like before the end of 1L year early--but can anyone offer more detail? Does he only look at candidates who are referred to him by someone in his network?

[Anonymous User]

Cote recently posted. What is her management style? And how is Oetken’s assignment system more preferable than how other judges do it? Does anyone know anything about clerking for Buchwald or Marrero?

Oetken's assignment system is similar to many others - dividing cases by terminal digits. The workload is just less as he handles lots of stuff himself and tends to rule efficiently.

[Anonymous User]

I know Nathan hired volunteer law clerks at the district - anyone know if this practice extends to her time on circuit?

[Anonymous User]

Is Nardini seen as a good boss/does he ever hire from outside T14?

[Anonymous User]

Is Nardini seen as a good boss/does he ever hire from outside T14?

He's taken a few top UConn students over the years. Don't know beyond that though.

[Anonymous User]

Rakoff remains an extremely well respected judge who still feeds, albeit much less often than before for reasons NYC clerks know.

You must be a Rakoff clerk.

Can someone explain what the tea is on Rakoff?

[Anonymous User]

Any insights into clerking for Reena Raggi or Richard Sullivan on the Second Circuit?

[Anonymous User]

Anon 2024-2025 CA2 clerk here (HYS student) - I wanted to share what I learned about the judges during my year in chambers because with so many new judges on the court, I had trouble finding good info when I was applying, with a focus on dem appointees.

Judges who are smart/principled/etc on the law - i.e., people I'd want to work for from the perspective of getting really good at lawyering: Nathan, Robinson, and Perez stand out as Biden appointees who are very smart and respected intellectually. Of the senior judges, Carney was the strongest. Kearse takes a very long time to turn around work product, but when she does its thoughtful. Walker is also thoughtful.

The judges you hear about often as mini feeders - Lohier, Walker, Calabresi - are all very smart, but don't rise above the pack in terms of their actual work product beyond reputation (I'm sure some very upset SCOTUS-hopefuls will be angered by this). DW, if you want to be fed, you should still apply to them.

Intellectually, Lee and Kahn struggle to pull their weight. And, of course, Menashi in a totally different way.

However, there are a few judges on the court who have a reputation for being extremely difficult to work for - particularly, Perez and Merriam. I would personally not work for either of them because a year of being yelled at (Merriam) or consistently shamed (Perez) is just not worth it.

In terms of ideology, the Court is generally pretty middle of the road to conservatives. There are no out there liberals in the way that Menashi is out there as a conservative. Other than Menashi, Park and Sullivan are the most conservative judges on the bench. None of the judges stand out as particularly liberal, but many of them trend center left consistently - Calabresi, Robinson, Perez, Nathan, and Merriam are probably the most left, with Merriam being most closely attuned to criminal defendants given her background as a PD. Walker and Bianco are more left than their appointments would suggest but not heavily so.

In terms of friendliness, Bianco and Robinson seem to be the nicest judges on the court. Nardini as well.

Cabranes is getting old and doesn't seem fully there during argument at times - not always following the parties and asking questions that were fully briefed.

Oh and one thing I didn't realize going in is the difference in work cadence between traveling and non-traveling chambers - chambers that are in NYC hear cases on a more regular cadence, whereas chambers outside of NYC often clump their cases into 3-5 day periods where they sit multiple days in a row. That makes the actual work quite different depending on where you judge sits. And there are pros and cons. An NYC chambers - you don't have a bunch of work pile up all at once, and there is more of a regular rhythm to prepping cases, writing summary orders and opinions, etc. A traveling chambers - the work is more cyclical. You typically prep a bunch of cases before a sitting, and then after a sitting, you turn around opinions/summary orders before turning to prepping a clump of cases again. The perks of traveling also include the government putting you up at a hotel in nyc and paying a per diem while you're there. The downside to that, of course, is having a bunch of travel, which can be disruptive.

Those are my thoughts - if I had to pick again, I'd apply (in order of seniority) to Walker, Carney, Bianco, Robinson, and Nathan.

[Anonymous User]

anyone have any insight on Kahn? particularly whether she's a good boss and where she tends to send her clerks post clerkship?

[Anonymous User]

What grades from HYS is Oetken generally looking for? Are there other things he values? He's the first openly gay Article III judge—do you think he's more willing to give an interview to a gay applicant who is maybe on the cusp of whatever grade requirement he has?

[Anonymous User]

Which judges in CA2/SDNY/EDNY look or are more receptive to top students outside the T14?

I graduated tied for 1 in my class at a T40 and am geographically limited due to personal circumstances. Targeting 2028/2029 and working in generic biglaw before then.