t14 - difficulty of admission Forum

[saltoftheearth]

just some TLS echo:

UVA seems to admit most 3.0 GPA, 170 LSAT ED applicants, while similarly ranked Duke requires higher numbers..

NU almost nearly requires WE to replace 2.x GPAs

I suppose I am trying to quantify a level of "difficulty," while still acknowledging the fact that GPA/LSAT/WE/Other are all unique... is there a specific combination (which is required for a x school) more difficult than any other?

is it easier to sneak into a few T10s than T14s? T6s than T10s? Certainly not any T3s... right?

[09042014]

just some TLS echo:

UVA seems to admit most 3.0 GPA, 170 LSAT ED applicants, while similarly ranked Duke requires higher numbers..

NU almost nearly requires WE to replace 2.x GPAs

I suppose I am trying to quantify a level of "difficulty," while still acknowledging the fact that GPA/LSAT/WE/Other are all unique... is there a specific combination (which is required for a x school) more difficult than any other?

is it easier to sneak into a few T10s than T14s? T6s than T10s? Certainly not any T3s... right?

NU requires W/E from more than just 2.x. They require it from pretty much everyone. And if you have really great numbers they'll offer a full ride in exchange for taking a year to get some. A 2.1/171 got in with W/E and a 3.65/174 will get WL'd without W/E.

Duke will ding people who are admits at NYU due to GPA.

I got into NU but would have been dinged from ND because of a 3.0 GPA cut off at ND.

Berkeley is a GPA whore. For great GPA, mediocre LSAT UCB is easier than all of NCDG.

[Cavalier]

You should probably check Law School Numbers for trends. Some schools like to lock down a certain number for their median, 25th percentile, or 75th percentile LSAT or GPA, so you can use that to your advantage. For instance, UVA seems determined to get a 170 LSAT median, so people with 170s can get have luck getting in through ED despite a lower GPA than most applicants, whereas applicants with 169s seem to have a tough time being admitted through regular decision, despite having great GPAs. It's all a game...

[saltoftheearth]

Duke will ding people who are admits at NYU due to GPA.

I got into NU but would have been dinged from ND because of a 3.0 GPA cut off at ND.

Berkeley is a GPA whore. For great GPA, mediocre LSAT UCB is easier than all of NCDG.

and that's a shame because I really like Duke. but luckily in your case, NU > ND and your numbers/WE fit perfectly!

[09042014]

Duke will ding people who are admits at NYU due to GPA.

I got into NU but would have been dinged from ND because of a 3.0 GPA cut off at ND.

Berkeley is a GPA whore. For great GPA, mediocre LSAT UCB is easier than all of NCDG.

and that's a shame because I really like Duke. but luckily in your case, NU > ND and your numbers/WE fit perfectly!

I got ridiculously lucky in regards to law schools. I want Chicago market after graduation, so NU is one of the best schools I would want to go to. Only HYS, Chicago and maybe Columbia would place better inside Chicago. NU happens to be the only t14 that would let me in.

[zanda]

Virginia and Michigan, especially Virginia, are hard to get into if your numbers are too high.

[los blancos]

is it easier to sneak into a few T10s than T14s?

I'm not going to pass this off as fact, but I honestly think I have a better shot at NYU and Chicago than UCLA.

It's all about GPA/LSAT combo and how a school weighs the two.

[saltoftheearth]

It's all about GPA/LSAT combo and how a school weighs the two.

moving up from the bottom of the T14, does that combo necessarily get more difficult?

[los blancos]

It's all about GPA/LSAT combo and how a school weighs the two.

moving up from the bottom of the T14, does that combo necessarily get more difficult?

Depends. Berk is one of the biggest schools on GPA, but a 3.5 will generally get you into CCN if the LSAT is high enough, though you might get WLed at MVPD. Sub 3.6 or 3.7, however, is a killer at HYS if you're not URM.

To me, there isn't really a clear trend. Each school seems to have its own cutoffs and they vary in different ways.

[rayiner]

Numbers-wise, I think there are probably more people who can get into Michigan than Duke. Maybe NU as well. The former seems more selective all-around. The latter is more amenable to high-LSAT/low-GPA splitters, but also has an LSAT wall at 169 until 3.7+. Both seem to take 170+/3.1+ if they apply early enough.

[saltoftheearth]

Both seem to take 170+/3.1+ if they apply early enough.

Yeah, that's the plan (for D and M)

Concerning admissions, I wish that Berkeley was more like UVA.

[Dinho]

.

[Richie Tenenbaum]

I would say typically it would go Y>S>H (minus the fact you can have a better shot at S with a lower LSAT with high gpa and good softs)

for splitters, in terms of difficulty:
Berkeley
Columbia
Chicago
Duke
Penn
UVA
Michigan
NYU
NU
GULC
Cornell

for more reverse splitters:
Columbia
NYU
Chicago
Berkeley (unless killer softs)
Penn
UVA
Northwestern
Michigan
Duke
GULC
Cornell

this list doesn't really consider gpa cut-offs (ie <3.0 + high LSAT with WE ppl prob have NU as their best T14 shot)

feel free to critique these lists and suggest changes

[vanwinkle]

UVA seems to admit most 3.0 GPA, 170 LSAT ED applicants, while similarly ranked Duke requires higher numbers..

This is no longer true regarding UVA. They have started WLing 170/3.x splitters noticeably more than last year, probably in part because of the extended ED deadline and large numbers of people going ED this year. They have a 3.85 median GPA that they're now defending aggressively and admitting too many splitters could endanger this.

I will say that in general the T10 do seem LSAT-obsessed with the exception of Berkeley which is more GPA-obsessed. All the UC schools seem more GPA-focused; even UCLA WL'd me despite UVA taking me last year, as a 170/3.0 splitter and a non-URM.

[jmaan]

UVA seems to admit most 3.0 GPA, 170 LSAT ED applicants, while similarly ranked Duke requires higher numbers..

This is no longer true regarding UVA. They have started WLing 170/3.x splitters noticeably more than last year, probably in part because of the extended ED deadline and large numbers of people going ED this year. They have a 3.85 median GPA that they're now defending aggressively and admitting too many splitters could endanger this.

I will say that in general the T10 do seem LSAT-obsessed with the exception of Berkeley which is more GPA-obsessed. All the UC schools seem more GPA-focused; even UCLA WL'd me despite UVA taking me last year, as a 170/3.0 splitter and a non-URM.

I was rejected from UVA with a 173.

Straight reject or WL???also how big of a split? this terrifies me

[vanwinkle]

I was rejected from UVA with a 173.

I would call that YP, except that usually involves a WL and not a reject.

[jmaan]

I was rejected from UVA with a 173.

I would call that YP, except that usually involves a WL and not a reject.

Ya I'd imagine YP=waitlist...maybe the GPA was lower than an unstated minimum?

I got WL'd at duke with my #s but ur reject at UVA is making me worry

[jmaan]

Big split, URM, straight reject.

Honestly, it kind of scares me, too.

That's a huge surprise. Were you <3.0 GPA?

Yes, but barely, and I've been out of school for the better part of a decade.

Part of me thinks I'm just screwed from the T14 because of my GPA, no matter what, and that this decision is just the first notice of that fact.

The other part of me just thinks that UVA saw a big f'n stack of apps and needed to weed some out, and my GPA was an easy target. This option might be more likely, but it doesn't exactly bode well for my cycle.

i think you'll have better luck at northwestern..regardless good luck man

[vamedic03]

Big split, URM, straight reject.

Honestly, it kind of scares me, too.

That's a huge surprise. Were you <3.0 GPA?

Yes, but barely, and I've been out of school for the better part of a decade.

Part of me thinks I'm just screwed from the T14 because of my GPA, no matter what, and that this decision is just the first notice of that fact.

The other part of me just thinks that UVA saw a big f'n stack of apps and needed to weed some out, and my GPA was an easy target. This option might be more likely, but it doesn't exactly bode well for my cycle.

Were you ED? UVA really seems to prefer to admit splitters ED very early in the cycle - it probably makes it easier for them to balance their numbers